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For some strange reason all the entrances of the Dutch Forum Archive were left out. I cannot present them to you, as Alois Treindle not only expelled me from his Forum, but he also deleted all other in Dutch written ADB Forum contributions, without explaining any clear reason for it. What was his problem with the contributions from in the Zwolle residing people like Thomas a Kempes?

TkAstroDb

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Recent advances in scientific astrology

rectification

Rectifying a chart - a challenge

Re: Rectifying a chart - a challenge

« Reply #260 - on: 02.01.2016 at 10:35 [UT] »

Quote from PhoenixNoodleSoup on 02.01.2016 at 01:49 [UT]:

So, your saying if you don't provide the name or the source of the information for Isaacs requisite 32 events prior to his doing the rectification, he, or someone else, might still be able to find the person and birth particulars? Except for your having mentioned you would draw upon Dutch personalities, and even still, I think it would be difficult. Even exceedingly difficult.

I've had some experience in designing these types of studies into parapsychology where "outside" sources of information had to be minimized. I see no reason why Isaac would have to sequester himself from the internet

Quote from ganglion on 01.01.2016 at 22:24 [UT]:

The only thing that I cannot check for here is that you are not doing the same as me, retrieving the online BC instead of just using Polaris. If we could arrange for an environment without access to the internet whilst the rectification is done that condition could be met.

In the quoted reply, three options were mentioned with regard to the question which charts to rectify.

1) If we used BC's of more or less public persons found in (here Dutch) internet archives, then Isaac should obviously be off-line.

The other mentioned options were:

2) Use BC and other data of public people that are retrievable, but of which the BC is not immediately available as it will be sent to you as a conventional letter. FI I request the BC via the internet at Monday 7 PM, the next working day it could be posted, to be received on Wednesday by me or some other person. This gives Isaac at least 24 hours to do a rectification, but two days more if we publish the to be used data on a Friday.

3) Use birth and other data of private people, which could be provided by forum members.

Option 2 has my preference, as the process is transparent and all the used data can be published and checked for. It also has a built in time limit of three days, when using the weekend closed effect of the municipal archive.

Option 3 has the disadvantage that others, including Isaac, can not check the provided data.

.... Everything about astrological research

Ray Murphy: This thread has been started so that anything related to astrological research can mentioned, and I suggest that challenging and questions should be very welcome if we are to make some headway. Where will we start?

ADHD (case study, anecdotal information)

Jamie Partridge: Astrological indicators of attention deficit-hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) and attention deficit disorder (ADD).

Rectifying a chart candidate Fred Polak

Thank you Ganglion for the new test with excellent list of events.

In the ADB you add his illness on July 1953, but this important event is not in the list.

Rectifying a chart candidate Eelco Van Kleffens

For those interested in rectifying charts, this could be a candidate.

This time we have no end day and no official contest. Just propose the time you need.

I propose one month reflection/discussion on which planets should be found on the cusps, in which houses and why.

Rectifying a chart candidate Henri Winkelmann

on: 15.09.2016 at 00:00 [UT+1] Winkelman, Henri

http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Winkelman,_Henri

Quote: Commander-in-chief of the Armed forces of the Netherlands during the German invasion of the Netherlands.

The Astrodienst biography given concentrates on for astrologers relevant information not given in the Wikipedia. More could be added. Important changes will be recorded in this thread.

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@Richard Starkman: The BC time of 4h30 AM differs only 10 minutes from your proposed time.

So congratulations again.

Rectifying a chart candidate Willem de Sitter : des nachts ruim ten twee ure (2h??) en dus zeker niet 2h45.

I rectified his chart to 2.07.40 LMT (01.45.00 GMT) Asc 26Aqu30'

Below is the list of peaks produced by Polaris, using 31 events from 1 to 9 LMT.

Some transits and secondary directions (see below) to radical Moon help me to find the approximate birth

time:

1. 20 Nov 1952 death of wife

Mars 90 Moon 46'

Converse Neptune 0 Moon 50'

2. 16 Nov 1934 death of granddaughter

20 Nov 1934 death

Uranus 0 Moon 7'

3. 13 Jan 1889 death of grandfather

Converse Saturn 90 Moon 4'

4. 16 Nov 1895 death of grandmother

Converse Mars 180 Moon 37'

Rectifying a chart candidate Jetty Cantor

Ganglion: The next candidate is a Dutch Jewish violinist and cabaret maker, who survived the Holocaust thanks to her playing music for time.

Rectifying a chart candidate Tjalling Koopmans

Rectification Advice

Hello Everybody, my name is Ian Murphy. I'm fairly new here but i've been experimenting & reading up on astrology since 2018. More recently, I've been trying to figure out how to go about rectification. If anyone has any suggestions for me I'm all ears.

I kept seeing Isaac Starkman's Rectifications on Astro Databank & decided to test them out using Johndro's system. Remarkably, Starkman seems to have hit the nose nearly every time i generated paragraphs. However, the stuff to run his app "Polaris" keeps crashing on me. Anyone who is curious just download virtualbox 6.1.18 along with windows xp iso, transfer the files into the virtualbox & then it should run.

I wanted to see other options out there & came across Hank Friedman's ultimate guide when it comes to astro software. He did not have polaris listed on his website from what i could tell so i emailed him.

"Unless you are a Vedic astrologer who uses Varga charts to rectify the birth time, there is no software that really makes a difference, I've tested them all & they're worthless - Hank"

When asked about special techniques, he told me that western rectifications were the most challenging & took many hours per chart as opposed to vedic which is simple & takes minutes.

A real Aquarian (case study, anecdotal information)

Ray Murphy: Many years ago I was on a sub-committee that was organizing an end of year astrology party (which included entertainment) and it all went remarkably smoothly. Finally when all the plans had been put in place we sat back congratulating ourselves, I said to one of the other astrologers "Hasn't this been an amazing experience -- all of us working together so well without anyone actually leading us?"

She snapped back with a knowing smirk "Whaddya mean - No one leading - I was put in charge of leading the group, but my Triple Aquarius made me keep the groups ideas in mind first, instead of just my own!"

Associating words with chart factors (just another approach to prove the truth of mime's)

Ray Murphy: Hi All, I will be writing a trial program that aims to show astrological factors based on the frequent use of various words when large amounts of general conversation or books etc are processed.

Astrodatabank research tool now released (Just look and find as any fool could expect. No mention of the usual standard error found in adbstats)

Alois: The new Astrodatabank research tool has now been released for general use, after a few months of testing. It allows selection of Astrodatabank data by numerous astrological criteria with many combinations. Subscribers of the service 'extended data storage' can also search their own database with the same search patterns: https://www.astro.com/adb-search.

Astrology as divination (See also Geoffrey Cornelius: The Moment of Astrology. Origins in Divination. Or IMO more likely origins in wellknown astrological prejudices that negatively influenced the population growt of China. Or must we convert to Chinese astrology to understand the more maya problem? I prefer to do some more empirical reseach, before answering these yes or no on speculations.

Waybread: After years of trying to get my head around the question of why astrology works (if it does) I have been edging towards the answer as divination. What do you think?

Waybread inspired me to write Statistiek en astrologie volgens Dane Rudhyar (Dutch).

Dit is mijn kritische commentaar op een veelvuldig door astrologen aangehaald artikel: Statistical Astrology and Individuality. Maar waar ging het Rudhyar nu eigenlijk om: Kwaliteit op maat verkiezen boven kwantiteit, zoals hij suggereerde?

astrology's importance

Mr. Chair: How could astrology be important for society at this time or in the future? Do any of you believe that your astrological work is ultimately for the benefit of society, whether through small or large contributions? Are there ways that people think astrology could be applied beneficially if it's usefulness were demonstrated to people in control (I'm using the term "people in control" vaguely)? How has astrology been beneficial so far? How does this contrast with how it is most often used?

Astrological Research

SandraCapi: Hi. This a beginner's question. I read astrology books and articles where the author states, if the owner of the astrologer chart has this aspect, this is likely to be true. How have astrology statements been tested, or researched or proven? For example a person with sun in aries is said to be more impulsive than other signs. Has that ever been tested? I am sure it would be hard to isolate chart factors for testing. Please do not give a history lesson here. How is current astrology research done? And how is past astrology proven? Where can I find this research?

salyangozun sol anteni (Dutch: slak's linker antenne): Have you ever visited the links below? Vocation : Art Critic / Adb Stats

astrology statistics research (See also: Data mining and The sampling error).

xor___: Hello, I've studied distribution of birth dates in connection with a lifetime using birth and death records and found there is a higher risk of premature death exist for people born in certain seasons of an year - for each geographiocal area correspond different season. Also I've found a higher rate of both exaltation and detriment of Venus according to the Human Design System in serial killer-rapists charts. My code repository: https://github.com/nadezhdin-ivan/shdt . Please use personal message if you need any additional info. Thank you.

Ray Murphy: I've just had a look at the serial killers (more than one murder) and was able to use 1642 with birth dates showing. 've just had a look at the serial killers (more than one murder) and was able to use 1642 with birth dates showing. I found it a bit slow converting the file into an astrology research file (CSV format) because the number of tab-delimited fields in your data varies.

I noticed that there are more Suns in tropical Leo + Aquarius, but not enough to be impressive.

I also looked at aspects and found these:

(1) SUN con MOO < 10 degs =26% above the theoretical mean

(2) MOO con URA < 6 degs = 35% above the theoretical mean

These two things look very interesting indeed.

Al Biruni

Deborah Houlding: Why is the Al Biruni page biography so bad? For all his wonderful achievements, all it says on him is: "Arabic mathematician, historian, astronomer and astrologer. He was notorious as a gross sensualist, infamous for excesses in food, drink and sex. Died 12/13/1048 OS, Ghazni, Afghanistan."

Then gives link to WP which talks all about his achievements as an astrologer and astronomer.

It is not often I think WP does a better job of detailing astro-biographies than astrologers do, but this page on astro.com must seem hugely offensive for those who live in the areas where they celebrate his life and scientific achievements. This stuff about him being some kind of sexual pervert - where is that coming from?

I thought I would report as I wondered whether this page had been hacked.

Brains wired differently (Yes, all individual brains are wired differently of course. So what? Have you ever studied Brain's anatomy, before you claim to pretend to understand the individual exceptions? Only fools can do claims like this).

Ray Murphy: This is a serious question, and it may even be saying something about me to be asking it, but have other posters noticed that besides the expected differences between people due to chart factors and environment, that some people have difficulty in accepting or even comprehending a FEW standard thought patterns or customs?

I had never noticed it until several years ago, and then I encountered several people like it.

Three Little Birds: Do you have an example? I think I understand your question but I'd rather be sure.

Can Leo become Taurus if he wishes to ?

Zie ook Radix5 versus Sirius. Sein oder Sollen?

Eris conjunct sun

Please show a little respect for the sun. The orb = 15 degrees. The SUN sign .

How do we resolve astrological sectarianism?

Nader Abed: When I got deep into astrology it became very apparent that many have splintered off to whatever it was they were doing saying stuff like 'astrology can/cannot do x or y' to meanings over the outer planets and asteroids, to whatever house system was best, to tropical vs sidereal accuracy, to whether hellenistic astrology was outdated, etc. I have been wondering if astrologically, all of this sectarianism can be resolved.

Goede vraag. Ik denk nooit. Alleen een gek als Putin die met de atoombom knoppen speelt denkt het in zijn hand te hebben. Maar een enkele kogel of iets in de thee is al genoeg om die gek te doden. Zoals hij ook aldoor met zijn vermeende opponenten afrekende.

Corfirmation Bias - does it undermineastrology?

Apostrophe: I have been through quite a dramatic shift in my worldview in the past few years, vaguely summarized by a questioning of faith based belief systems like religion and astrology and a greater reliance on critical thinking and science.

Lee Rutland: Well, unfortunately, confirmation bias is used in every field, from history, to the Theory of Evolution, to global warming. There is no escaping it.

Lee Rutland maakt hier ogenschijnlijk een punt. Het is een pot nat. Want ook in iedere wetenschap kan bias een rol spelen. Daarom doen normale wetenschappers hun best om bias te voorkomen. En bespreken ze ook publiekelijk de tekortkomingen (flaws) van hun empirisch onderzoek.

Het werkelijke probleem hier is dat Astrology niet aan die wetenschappelijke regels voldoet. En dus bestaat ze niet.

De astrologen die Astrology als een real science propageren, gedragen zich namelijk eerder als een beter wetend Ego dan als zijn Inner Observer. Ze gaan bij hun speculaties over de wereld teveel van hun toevallig aangeleerde boekenkennis en tradities uit dan van de al bestaande empirische kennis.

Death prediction in astrology

Forum Admin: Chart deleted by moderator, rule violation.

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Forum Admin: Be sure that we would not permit the planning of war, murder or suicide on the forum. Not everything needs to be written in the rules, we can make them up as situations come along. We also expect some common sense in this community. As can be seen in many responses, it is in fact there. We have nothing against astrologers doing predicions of any kind in their private office, sitting face to face with their clients whom they have known over a long time, and who are paying them. There, they may predict illness and death as much as their client is willing to take. What an astrologers does in his practice is within his domain of responsibility. What is clear to me is that astrologers who play the game of death prediction are not in it "to help their clients". They are in it because they feel it gives them tremendous power.

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This power game has been played by some astrologers since millennia. Just do not play it on our forum.

Waybread: Horary astrology operates differently, but if anyone here has mastered its methods sufficiently to confidently assert the snuff-out date for another human being, they can do this in some other venue. (Really? What is the evidence?)

Elementally deficient?

Waybread: Are you "low" in a given element in your chart-- or do you care about someone in this situation? How does it manifest? (Asking for the confirmation bias)

U kunt over deze vraag in een individueel geval eindeloos speculeren, maar uiteindelijk gaat het om de gevonden feiten in groepen. En dan is de meest voor de hand liggende onderzoeksvraag: Zijn bepaalde ADB categorieën astrologisch gezien gebrekkig in iets? Maar als we in die groepen niets bijzonders zien, dan valt de logica en aannemelijkheid van uw astrologische hypothese wel uit elkaar.

Enneagram and astrology- share your thoughts

Enneagrams

cynthpoet: I took an Enneagram Personality Test and came up as a Type 4 (The Romantic/Artist) with Type 2 (The Helper) being the next highest result--all others were so low that they did not even count. Since Enneagram testing takes one's Sun Sign into account, how accurate is this field of study in fleshing out one's personal understanding of the self?

exercise - guessing game

Hi everyone!

Many years ago we used to do mystery exercises or guessing games. It was a great and fun way to practice, to test your skills, and to learn.

It worked like this: someone would post a chart providing a few options; all of them were false except for just one. Other forum members guessed which option was the right one, based on astrological reasoning. The winner had the privilege to post the next mystery chart and so on.

We usually gave a whole week for each exercise before providing the right answer to the forum members. A week was more than enough time for everyone to check the chart and think about their answer.

So, here is the first one. I'll be posting the right answer next Wednesday, June 3rd, 2020.

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Only one answer is correct.

This is the chart of a man who is a:

1. Perfumist setenced to jail for poisoning his only child.

2. Priest and teacher secretly tormented by his latent homosexuality and pedophilia.

3. Jewelry seller and scammer with a serious drinking problem.

4. Local news reporter killed in an explosion while covering a story.

Which answer do you think is the right one and why?

Is all astrology valid?

Ed Falis Member Posts: 592 Gender: male

« Reply #5 - on: 27.11.2020 at 22:22 [UT] »

I think of astrology as being most closely analogous to math and its applications.

Both are formal symbolic systems with methods for manipulating their symbols. Those rules, which ultimately are based on assumptions, are applied to various fields (eg medical astrology, etc). The astrology case of doing that is broadly similar to applied math for science and engineering (and less formal use).

In both cases, all levels are subject to learning through experience, and development over time. Fundamental math and science have better developed methodology (the study of methods) than astrology does. But they are still subject to these constraints.

Both have applications that can be better or worse developed. Both can have more or less rigorous methods for assessing "logical" consistency, and for assessing accuracy and precision of their representations and their use.

So it's only natural that like math and its application, astrology has fields where the state of knowledge is more or less developed and valid vs bunkum.

I find the above a useful and practical way of thinking about astrology and its nature. The "royal sciences".

3-way combinations.

When checking my chart for a possible correlation with a long-ongoing skin complaint (yeah-yeah, s.p. EmMN-Asc.!), I added the quintiles and bi-quintiles aspects.

To my surprise, it showed a triangle between Moon-Jupiter-Uranus ....2 Bi-quintiles to a quintile base.

Export of ADB data for research

Thank you very much by bringing the ADB to open source. This will yield a boost to the few astrologers that only believe in significant statistical facts. Maybe many astrology books have to be rewritten, but that paradigm change problem also happened many times before in the scientific revolutions.

I got banned in 2019 as an ADB editor and AstroDienst Forum member by writing this intolerable message. But the good news was that I got more time to do the much more needed genuine astrological research :-).

How did you learn astrology?

Participating on this forum can teach you a lot, especially if you already have a basic understanding of astrology. There are a number of participants here who can explain different methods when charts are examined. I try to pick up the particular methods some people use that may differ from my own approach. Most capable astrologers have some basic technique they rely on or trust to give them a starting point on a chart. It may be the way they use house rulerships, or the way they do solunar returns, or the way they use progressions, or profections; or Sect to sort out the dominant planets; or exactitude of a major aspect like a square or opposition or conjunction to give them a point of difference; or the chart pattern, or certain focal determinators . And there are lots of chart examples sometimes very well timed, to discover admidst the postings that can help test your charts and methods. And sometimes there are excellent tests where anonymous charts are posted that you can try to match up .

How do you check your conclusions?

« on: 14.07.2011 at 06:28 [UT+1] »

How do you question astrological claims, whether they are from you, a fellow astrologer, or a book? In determining technique, how do you deal with nuances that defy the logic behind your technique? If you read for others, how do you know that the people you are reading for aren't just gullible? Psychological astrologers, how do you describe a motive or feeling which isn't entirely rational?

I know that most astrologers don't believe in having the scientific method predominate astrology (¿¿ NeoAstrology=zzzzz ??), but the astrologers' abilities to check their own conclusions is what tames the flow of ideas. With ideas running rampant, the appeal of sectarianism would increase and astrologers would only continue to argue about their systems.

Please do not limit the discussion to the questions in my elaboration.

« Last Edit: 14.07.2011 at 21:30 [UT+1] by u209741000 »

IP Logged

Re: How do you check your conclusions?

« Reply #1 - on: 14.07.2011 at 07:31 [UT+1] »

This is the very best question I have read in this forum so far

How is astrology research done by the researchers?

I appreciate your open attitude. I feel you are really interested in the state of the art.

I have a medical background. One of my tasks is to inform/advise people about the value of treatments, life style habits and the like.

Simple questions are: Does cure C1 heals disease D? Or is cure C2 better? What are the side-effects and costs?

Answers on those kind of questions should be found in the medical literature. For difficult and expensive cures, randomised double blind trials (RCR) should be done, to rule out all kind of fallacies (like placebo and by chance effects).

Statistical meta-analysis of several (independent) studies gives the best evidence (see below). Without giving correct (or the best available) information, an oncologist advising a cancer patient to undergo a dangerous cancer treatment could be brought to court.

If astrology didn't exist, how could we start?

« on: 24.04.2014 at 16:56 [UT+1] »

If astrology didn't exist, how could we start now?

Would we in 2014, be noticing correspondences between people's traits etc and the movement of celestial bodies?

IP Logged

Re: If astrology didn't exist, how could we start?

« Reply #1 - on: 24.04.2014 at 17:07 [UT+1] »

I think we would start by noticing that events repeat regularly. In the life of particular men and in worldly events. Then we would search for something else in nature to use as a tool to predict this repetitive patterns.

The planets are especially good for this as they have regular orbits that can be calculated mathematically.

However, if astrology didn't exist in 2014 I think it would be very difficult to start because people seem to be devolving; we live submerged in endless distractions. Nowadays people in general are more ignorant, unintelligent and useless than before. Ancient people were more aware, observant and in contact with their environment.

Just an opinion,

Ricardo

Inventors of anything

Malefics - Benefics

Karmic Astrology - Martin Schulman

Do you think Black Holes have influence?

MBTI and astrology of personality

Medical Astrology

Numerology and Astrology

Numerology is confusing (like astrology and any other belief), as there are so many versions of it.

. 7th day is reflection on the here and now

. 8 change your mind

. 9 return

10/1

Neil Young - Change Your Mind

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45qX1VYONds

Opinion survey: Is astrology "scientific"?

Pattern Distributions Of 219 Psychologists' Charts

Psych categorizing ideas wanted for research

Research: Musicians

RESEARCH - Anyone using Jigsaw or Astrodatabank?

Research - Finding provable categories

Research - Gauquelin 1472 Painters

Research observations

Research - Suicide - Sun-Sun

Scientific Testing of Astrology

Sect - Research and discussssion

Sedna Consciousness, the Path of Destiny :

Southern Hemisphere astrology - burning question

The Huber Approach to Astrology

tropical vedic or sidereal western astrology

Wanted lots of marriage date data :

Western Astrology Add-Ons in the last 150 years

What does the chart NOT show?

Alois: It does not show your intelligence, your wealth, your weight or height, your education, your health, the colour of your skin, whether you are a Saint, a Nazi, a Communist, a Trumpist or a normal person, and many other concrete things.

Who Can Overpower Pluto ?

Ganglion: The slow planet Pluto certainly deals with long-standing planetary (becoming unconscious cosmic) influences. Slow changes that easily could trap you. Slow influences/changes could become unnoticed habits. Boiling Frog Experiment :: What do you think is the frog's fate? Watch more.

Whole houses vs other house systems

Intuitive astrology?

Have you folks ever thought about using your intuition, or "soul's voice", or such, your internal guidance.... have you considered asking from that direction, what the planets and signs mean, what is their "color of influence" if you will, on us?

Rectifying a chart candidate Arvo Pärt

This time I have no BC and /or family related data, so there is no contest. But he was one of what a Sufi would name, being reborn after ten years of silence, an awakened person. Not trying to achieve things, but receiving It / the Divine.

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The ADB could be a source of "Aufklärung" and "Verklärung" if we added more historical data to it, instead of being happy with a supposed to be unique birth time. The BC is just the beginning of divine things happening in time.

Arvo Pärt: Da Pacem (full album)

This masterpiece was composed by Arvo Pärt to pay tribute to all the victims of the MADRID trains bombings (11th March 2004).

193 were killed and more than 2000 were injured.

REST IN PEACE. ??

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A perfect symbiosis of form, movement and music. Wonderful.